Building your brand with photos that tell your story - Podcast interview with John Demato

What does your profile picture say about you? What are the best images to have on your website? John Demato is a photographer and visual story expert. In this episode, John tells Mark Egan how he left a job at the Maury Show and began mixing his photography and storytelling skills. Now he helps his clients use visual storytelling. Go to https://www.johndemato.com/ to find out more about John. 

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 Transcript:

 

Coming up on the knowledge industry podcast,

 

John DeMato  00:02

you're taking your audience on a journey with your content. And a lot of that journey needs to feel like the bet. Well, the best way to create engagement and to create interest is to give your audience the opportunity to feel like they're a fly on the wall in your life.

 

mark egan  00:19

Have you ever thought about the story? your social media profile picture is telling me what pictures Do you use on your website. JOHN d'amato is a photographer and a visual story expert. He's used his background in television production on the Maury Povich talk show, and his photography skills to mix imagery with storytelling. He also has an online course teaching people how to take effective photos of themselves. So how should you be using photographs and images to tell your story?

 

00:47

Do you sell online courses or run live workshops? Do you have expertise that can help people in life or business? Are you even running an online training Empire from your kitchen table? Then you're part of the knowledge industry, a fast growing industry that means that you can learn almost anything, and anyone can create a business around what's between their ears. Welcome to the knowledge industry podcast with your host, Mark Egan.

 

mark egan  01:14

So john, great to chat to where exactly in the world are you right now?

 

01:18

It's good to be here, Mark. I'm in New York City. I am in Queens, New York.

 

mark egan  01:24

You know, the very before I went to New York, for the very first time I flew, I can't remember is it another airport in the US. And I sat beside a woman who was from Seattle. And I was really excited to go to New York for the first time. And she basically spent the whole trip saying, I really don't know why you're going there. People are so rude. They're so unfriendly. So I had such low expectations when I got there. I absolutely loved it. Because I was presume there's going to be a complete hellhole. And it was great. So I'm very jealous of you. We actually come from a very similar background, because you know, I used to work in television, you worked in television yourself. So what, tell me a bit about you Where Where did you kind of start off in this whole kind of media career?

 

02:04

Well, it started off in grad school, or in college, and then in grad school, where I got an MFA in television production. And there was just something about cameras that I was drawn in by I mean, actually, what it really was, I wanted to be a sports announcer when I was in high school, I thought it was cool. And I figured, well, if I'm going to get into sports broadcasting, I might as well learn about the production side. And then that's when I started to think to myself, you know, this camera stuffs kind of cool, I kind of like it. And when I went to grad school, the idea of doing announcing went away. And the idea of doing something in production. The reason why I went there was because I wanted to kind of go through all of the different things live event and single camera, documentary style, and all those different things. And ultimately, a year after I graduated with my degree, I started working on Maury, the talk show, and I was there for nine years. And eventually, I just kind of burned out from it, because it's a pretty intense place to work. And, you know, while on the side, I about five years, and I started playing around with my digital camera that I had, and I started finding a lot of peace with that creativity is being energized. And fast forward a couple more years, and I quit my television job and I figured you know what, I'm going to pick up that camera and start making money off of it. That's where it all began.

 

mark egan  03:38

Somebody's gonna write for you. But I mean, we're going back to when you're in that job, because for a lot of people working in television is their dream job. It's something you know, if you have that job, you you damn well you hold on to it. What was it about that? Was it the fact that it was repetitive? That what did you lose a sense of creativity? Or was it just that Maury wouldn't leave so you could never get that announcer on screen job?

 

04:04

I don't think I wouldn't be a very good more host. But um, no, I was combination of all of those things. And really what the straw that broke the camel's back was when my mom was on our way out. She had cancer. And, you know, I just had this kind of moment of clarity in my mind that I knew that there was something missing in terms of, you know, why? Why I, I'm I exist, you know, like, what's my purpose, and I kind of realized that I was leaving a lot on the table by doing the same thing over and over again, and don't get me wrong. There was a lot of benefits to working on that show that actually influences the work that I do with my expert clients now. But, you know, kind of felt like a factory after a while and we're peddling and a lot of emotion. And I have to tell you, you know, it's emotional for these people on camera to find out some of the worst news they could ever find. doubt about that life. But, you know, listening to those stories day after day after day, it took a toll on me. And I knew I needed something else.

 

mark egan  05:08

And were there any of those particular stories or examples or moments that you just look back? And that kind of sums up? it sums it all up for you maybe one guest or one show that you just thought? I'm not sure I want to do this anymore.

 

05:22

Oh, I've got an iPhone full of stories that I could tell you that.

 

05:28

Go ahead.

 

05:30

No, you know what it is, it's just I mean, at the end of the day, there is an interest in these kinds of stories. It's very compelling, the rail, very emotional, but it's just the the sum total of all of them day after day, month, after month, and year after year, just I. And it's kids, you know, after a while, you can only kind of compartmentalize your emotions and the work for so long before bleeds. And that's, that's really what happened to me. It just was a bit much. And that's why I had to kind of really, and then again, of course, the inspiration of you know, what am I doing with my life, you know, you put those two things together. And the next thing you know, you jump out a window, and you start a business when you're never wanted to start a business, because your whole life, Laura, at least my whole like young adult life into my career was like you said TV, it was like I'm here, this is awesome. Millions of people watch this stuff. That's it, there's something cool about it. And there's an energy to the work to the stuff I was shooting despite how, you know, emotional it was there was a charge to be able to capture that moment as it's happening, because it's not like you can replicate that kind of emotion again. So

 

mark egan  06:47

I'm very interested in the transferable skills bit, which we'll come to in a minute. But I completely understand, you know, obviously, very sorry to hear about your mother. And that would have really been a moment where you thought, you know, life is short, do I really want to be doing this? So that moment when you thought Actually, I'm going to leave this job? What was that? Like? What was your? Did you have a master plan? Or was it just, I'm joking. It's gonna happen.

 

07:10

I had no plan I had I'm going to be absolutely impulsive and completely lose my mind. And that was it. There was something that happened at the office, and I just had that you know what? I'm done. I'm done. And that's it.

 

mark egan  07:26

And please tell me you did your Jerry Maguire thing where you kind of what I've had enough of this, and you stormed through the office and a real kind of made a big scene, or did you slip out quietly?

 

07:36

Not that I want to get into the details of it. But yeah, yeah, I had that moment.

 

mark egan  07:44

And I will fill in the blanks for you. Don't worry, I've seen my mind you storming out of the Maury Povich production offices and off to start a new chapter in your life.

 

07:55

Yeah, it was, it was memorable. Let's just say that. But I will say that, you know, we left on good terms, the executive producer, and I, you know, that we were good. I was good with everybody. It was fine. But yeah, it was absolutely terrifying for the first I mean, if I said year, year and a half, I'd probably be even to short on it. Because I had no skills with respect to running a business. Sure, I could pick up a camera and make something happen. But I had absolutely no idea how to do anything. And it was, and I didn't know where to turn at the time, either. Because I was unaware of all of these different communities, you know, even the idea of network and what the hell is that? You know, you're gonna go into a room with a bunch of strangers, you're gonna try to strike up conversations. I barely want to do that with people that I know, for God's sakes. Now you want me to go? And do that?

 

mark egan  08:50

Yeah. Yeah. They never teach that stuff in school, either. Do they? You know, do you think you're taught you know how to study and get a job, but you never taught about how to run a business and network? And in? You know, how accounting work or anything like that? Or because I was in the same boat? Yeah,

 

09:05

yeah. But it's not even those skills. It's emotional intelligence. It's resilience. It's the ability to, you know, take rejection on a minute by minute basis and handle that, you know, you're never taught any how to how to how to build processes in your business and your workflow so that you can optimize your time to be able to do things. I remember I ran into someone who is a processes and systems expert. I'm like, What the hell do you do? Exactly. And now I know what she does, because I had to figure it out the hard way. And, you know, once you kind of get the momentum rolling and kind of get it, get it, get it moving, get the train actually on the tracks moving forward. You know, you kinda can start to do it, but I'm 70 years into this business life and you know, we're still figuring things out and that's what I do. realize there is no mountaintop moment, there is no, okay, I know everything, I don't need to do anything else. Here we are, you know, it's a constant evolution in every single area of your business as well as your life. Because as a, you know, solo business owner, everything is weave together in my world. So that that's the really interesting part. It's challenging, and it's frustrating and sometimes overwhelming. But the the fulfillment level, can't get it while you're working for someone else. So that's part I'm extremely grateful that I gave myself the opportunity to discover that on my own.

 

mark egan  10:37

Yeah, I mean, I, I went through a similar process. I remember the book The E myth. I don't know if you've ever read that, where it basically explains the difference between having a passion and making that a business and actually being the owner of a business. I realized, Oh, yes, that's kind of what I'm doing wrong. But what you did, because you moved into, you know, telegraphy, maybe a bit of video production, and then you segwayed into what you're doing now. So tell us a little bit about what that what happened there. What was the change? And why did you make that change?

 

11:06

Well, for the, for the first three years, I was flapping around like to fish out of water, basically, essentially, being a jack of all trades and a master of none, we, you know, I shot corporate events and video, like you said, some video production at the time, like small little teaser videos or promo videos for small businesses. I'm shooting, I'm shooting like bar mitzvahs, and birthday parties and family shots, and just all of these different things. And and I refer to that time as my creative crises, because I knew I was getting I was getting work. And, and every year, the income was increasing a little bit every year. And that was fine. But I didn't feel fulfilled, it didn't feel right. And I would spend a ton of time looking at what other photographers were doing online and kind of like, I could do that. So let me go on Craigslist, find someone to shoot and let me recreate that. And it was fine. You know, you'll learn the nuts and bolts, you'll learn the dynamics of working with people in front of the camera and all of that stuff, which is valuable, but ultimately wasn't where I wanted to go. And then I met a woman at a networking event who was a personal branding expert. And she saw some of the photos that I snapped from that event that started a conversation, that conversation led to me shooting a one day event she had, which then led to further conversations on the phone about what I was doing. And at the time, I was kind of trying to figure out how can I apply the things that are in my life that I like to shoot and create something for a group of people that that would benefit them and also create that opportunity for me to feel as an artist that I'm you know, achieving that level of satisfaction with my work. So she was putting out a book, and she needed a social media presence. And she needed a photo for the cover of the book, and she wanted all this stuff. And she's like, well, what kind of photos Do you think I need. And then I started thinking about the stuff I did at Maury, and you know, the beam, specifically B roll, you know, left, right up, why medium close, tight visual variety from all different angles. So my editors had, you know, enough stuff to create something compelling with the interviews, we shot on the show. And like, I can do that same style, with photos, and they can use it to kind of pair up with their content that they're creating. So she liked the idea, we did the shoot, her and her husband are a team, they put together my first website, and the next thing you know, I'm shooting branded lifestyle portraits for speakers, authors, coaches, and consultants. And that kind of started the brand to serve experts. And, you know, that was now late 2016. And I started that aspect that nation 2017

 

mark egan  14:11

because, you know, if you, anybody goes to look at your website, what I really like about you obviously have a kind of portfolio of examples. A lot of photographers, you know, I don't mean to be mean, but if you ever seen that scene on maybe the film Zoo lander, where he has this kind of one look, and they go through the calendar, and it looks like pretty much the same shot was just like a different shirt on or whatever. Sometimes you look at photographers thing, and it's, it's almost like they've got kind of one or two tricks. And just whoever turns up, that picture is gonna look the same with the same kind of side lighting or whatever. What I liked about your pictures is each one was very specific to the person. So what is that what? How do you define that? What is that process you're doing as opposed to the photographers and I know they're a very good job. was out there as well. But I do see a lot of portfolios where it is basically, if you want this picture, but with you in it come to me, whereas your specifically is, if you want a picture that reflects you personally come to me.

 

15:13

Yeah, well, one of the things that I noticed within the expert space in terms of their photography is that there's a lot of beautiful work out there, the work is wonderful. But in my estimation, you know, dealing with these experts and talking to them and all of the different research and working with people over the years, I realized that, you know, they're pretty photos aren't enough flattering photos are important, because if they're not flattering, you're never going to use them, you know, that one look, or if it's like a shot, where it looks very, like straightforward, and, you know, they're not going to use those photos, if they're not flattering. But that is not a objective. That's just the prerequisite that photos also need to be revealing and inspiring and relatable as well, because those are the stories that my clients share with their audience. They don't just share sunshine and rainbows, big wins every other day, our moments, oh, my God, my life is amazing. They also talk about when they've been knocked on their ass and how they got up. Because that is an important lesson to share, as well as you know, whatever their flavor of transformation is, for those that they serve, you know, they're talking about a variety of stories that fall across the emotional spectrum. And my job is to capture a portfolio of images that reveals all of these emotions and through their facial expression and their body language. But it's not just about that, it's also about the fact that in order to create relationships with their audience, so that these people are drawn in more to their world, so that they can qualify them and figure out if they are, in fact, the solution to their problems, you got to show them how the sausage is made. And that's why these experts need to show what their processes look like what work looks like, what a learning from them looks like whether it's on a stage or in front of a room, or if it's on a screen, or if it's through their book, we need to see what those images are. Because it's not enough to just talk to talk about how you can help people, you have to show them what it looks like. And that's a huge component to what I do what my clients we figure out what their day to day looks like in business and in life. And we capture those candid images that will bring that home for people. So it inspires their audience to stop the scroll and actually read the content and follow through on the call to action.

 

mark egan  17:46

It's a good example of that whole idea that sometimes people don't realize the skills they do have the value they do have. And you know, you worked on Maury. And one thing I know we knock some of these programs, but and feel free to this disagree with me. But even the most of the kind of tacky, cheesy programs, the people behind them really understand storytelling. They're really understand how to create a story arc how to get people to kind of like you say relatability, how to get people to connect with people. So in a sense, you put together your level of photography, with those skills, would that be a fair thing to say in the sense that everything you saw what from that show you learnt from and then you did the photography? And then you just saw actually if you bring these together, then you're not just another photographer along with lots of other photographers.

 

18:33

Yeah, that that was the that was the linchpin to making this whole veranda lifestyle portrait thing come about and then and, and then moving forward with the virtual photography. It's the same thing. Anytime that there's a person in front of the camera, the goal is to capture various ranges of emotion because that is what hooks people,

 

mark egan  18:53

because I need to ask you about that virtual thing. You can't let you skip over that because I absolutely love this when I looked at your website is, of course, with COVID lockdowns, it's not been easy to go out and take pictures and wander around people's houses and get up close and say Come on, you know, smile for the camera. And so a lot of photographers have really, really struggled. But you came up with a solution to that, didn't you?

 

19:18

I came up with something. Yeah. And it was born out of a need of what my my people had at the time, which was they lost their stages. And that was replaced by a screen, and I followed them. And essentially, what I did was capture images of people on screens with their presentations or their masterminds or their consultations or what whatever the case is, because each expert has different ways that they leverage the virtual platforms. And, you know, create a shock sheet around that. That illustrates the experience through these photos of what it would like, would be like for someone who was on the other side learning from them. And that's what I did, you know, simply a matter of getting us. I mean, it was weird. And I'm not gonna lie as I never thought in a million years of issuing a laptop screen, make a living off of it. But the skills were transferable because at the end of the day, it's a stage, even though it's a laptop on my folding table in my apartment, in various rooms of it, as I'm rolling around on the floor, shooting pictures of it, it's still relevant and valuable, because those photos allowed these people to promote themselves so that they can get work during a really difficult time. And that's what ended up happening.

 

mark egan  20:47

And, you know, now social media is really important. I always think in the past, celebrities had to operate in a certain way. Now, pretty much everybody has it. And I'm as guilty as anybody. And I traveled around the world doing all sorts of exciting things. And then it came to putting some pictures on a website, and it was like, I don't have any photos. So because you need to show your story, like you say, so what are the common things you think people are doing wrong? You know, when you look at their social media presence, you look at their images? What do you what are the main things people are doing wrong?

 

21:18

Well, the main, the main thing that I see a lot of people do is that they put too much of a focus on looking good in the photos and not bringing any soul or substance to the image. And like I said before, flattery is important, but there has to be something else to it. One of the other things that I see is just a lot of the staged aspect of some of these photos feels like it's outside of the personality of the person delivering it, it feels like the photographer prompted the person to shoot those images in that way. And it's not really germane to that person's sensibilities, but they did it anyway. And it's cute, and they think they're going to get really good likes on it. But it does, it's a sink. There's an asynchronous kind of vibe between the image and the person. And another thing that I see that absolutely drives me crazy is when people unnecessarily break the fourth wall for no reason whatsoever. You know, it'll be a shot where someone's on a computer, and they're holding, like, you know, a cup of coffee or something. And then all of a sudden, they just look up and they're looking right at the camera, for some reason like

 

mark egan  22:30

that. There's no shots. We just caught us at the moment.

 

22:33

It's like, Oh, hello, no, no, I don't like those. Because there is this sense of, you know, look at me, look at me, look at me for no reason. You know, just shoot a photo of yourself working like intently or reading something with your own body language and posture as you're doing. So, you know, react to what you're reading, laugh, make a question, questioning face, or anger or whatever. But don't look into camera with a fake cheesy smile and break the fourth wall for no reason. Because at the end of the day, you're taking your audience on a journey with your content. And a lot of that journey needs to feel like the bet, well, the best way to create engagement and create interest is to give your audience the opportunity to feel like they're a fly on the wall in your life. So that it gives them an entry point in there, which motivates them more to engage, ask questions follow up, which ultimately leads to them getting on the phone with you and booking you for whatever service that you have to offer them.

 

mark egan  23:45

Now, I'm immediately going to go and check out my website and delete any pictures that match that description. But, you know, you obviously help clients, you take pictures you work with creatively to tell a story across different platforms in different ways, visually, but you also teach now is, this is something people say a lot, don't they? They say either you've got the eye for photography, or you don't, it's not something that can be learned. what's what's your take on all that? And what how do people learn from you?

 

24:17

Well, with regards to an AI, it can be taught that all of it can be taught. The question is, do you have the passion for it? If you have a passion for it, you're going to go down that road. It's not like when I look at photos from 15 years ago, you know, it looks exactly like what I shoot it on shooting now. I mean, there is always an evolution there is again, there's no mountaintop moment here with you know, I know everything I need to know I'm done. You know it's a constant work in progress, especially when you're talking about art. And as with respect to how I teach people I have an online course and And the course is geared towards people who want to take high quality self portraits of themselves. Because, you know, as a business owner, you need to be able to share these moments that matter in your life that will resonate with your audience in order to create, you know, helpful nurture that relationship you have with them. But you don't always have a professional photographer around you 24 seven. So as a result, you need to be able to empower yourself to pick up the camera and take photos, but not just any old, you know, self portraits way to flap in a camera around and hoping for the best, you know, with a couple of simple, foundational pieces to creating a well composed image, you'll be able to elevate the artistry in your own photos so that it will compliment the professional photos that you have, and be able to stretch out those professional photos because you don't have to use them every day, because you'll have moments from your own life. So that's what the shoot yourself course does. It gives you those, those foundational principles on how to be able to take really nice photos with your phone.

 

mark egan  26:13

And what was the process of doing that? Because you've got years of experience, and you're possibly trying to teach people who may be fairly new to this. What did you how did you decide what to leave in? What to leave out? How, how am I going to make this with video? What was the whole process of putting the course together? Like

 

26:32

it was it was, it was kind of difficult, I'm not gonna lie, because, you know, some of the stuff that I could say will just go right over people's heads. Because you know, the, it's that, that knowledge and experience. So what I ended up doing was, I got it down to nine modules. And as an I wrote it, I wrote the whole script once then I went through and I thought to myself, talk talk to people, like as if they're five years old, talk to people, is this for a five year old? Or am I going too deep? If it's too deep, cut it out, cut it out, cut it out, cut it out, cut it out, less is more, less is more, especially with something like this. And then the next thing was I recorded the audio, and shared it with a couple of non photographer colleagues, like Does this make sense. And the feedback was very positive. So I knew I was on the right track, and then I finished it off, and now it's done.

 

mark egan  27:30

Okay, and coming back to because we can kind of pull these together in a way because a lot of people who are trying to leverage their expertise, you know, coaches, course creators, they also need what you're offering, which is the visual branding, and all that kind of things. What's the process? So if somebody is there, they've got some expertise, they're thinking, I need to position myself in the market, I want to sell online courses and do coaching, what would be the first step that you would say they should be taking?

 

28:00

Well, the first step with regards to getting photography to promote themselves,

 

mark egan  28:06

well, in essence, you know, possibly even before that, so that, you know, you bump into somebody say, Look, I'm like you, I'm leaving my corporate job, I might have an expertise in this and the other, I'm going to try and turn that into a business, you've done this, what what would your advice to them be?

 

28:20

Well, the first step would be to have a brain dump, massive, massive brain dump without any restrictions whatsoever, just get it all down. And then the second step would be to go in and highlight the key elements, to be able to create some type of a framework, because one of the one of the challenges that I had was, even though this thing, this concept of shooting yourself seems very linear, it's not, it's not linear at all. So it had to become linear. And as a result, for anyone that's putting together their own course, they really need to be able to find those high level bullet points that can be come the spine of the entire program, you can fill in the details, the anecdotes, the examples, all of the different things that you need, after which I have to have that spine first. You know, it's kind of like when I was producing shows and writing, writing scripts, you know, it's the same thing. You need your beginning, middle and end, then you need those pieces in between, and then you fill out everything else. It's challenging, but I think if you start with a simple brain dump and just allow all of your expertise to come out and overwhelm yourself for a day and then go back to it and then start parsing out the nitty gritty, important details, and then be able to explain those details and concepts in a very simplified way with non industry related jargon. You know, you can use the jargon but be able to define it very well. That's when you have something you can work with.

 

mark egan  30:01

Can I just ask if you're able to share it? One of your clients? Could you talk us through a story of you know, maybe one client what they did? And how you were able to translate what they did their business their process into something visual?

 

30:16

Sure. And I do that with all my clients. And it all starts with a strategy call, there's a free session strategy call that it's about 29 questions, I think. And what I'm trying to do is high level they figure out who they are, who they serve, what problems do they solve? How do they solve them? And why do they do what they do? So that it's a bit of business, it's a bit of life, it illustrates their day to day activities. And that's what I'm trying to figure out. Now, obviously, there are commonalities among all experts, you know, we work on computers, we work on our phones, we, you know, work on tablets, and all these different things. But

 

mark egan  30:57

we don't go surfing.

 

30:59

Yeah, no. Although I've had a client that has done that, yes, that and that's exactly things like that. It's it's about finding the wrinkles and the nuances in that experts personality and disposition and the way they live their life and what's important to them, and what they are willing to share online, and then put together a shot sheet that illustrates all of these different things. Now, of course, we also need headshots, we also need looking at the camera portraits, because we need those promotional images, profile images, things like that. But it's the lifestyle component that really brings the juice to the table, because that's what separates you and creates distinction from other experts in their spaces. Because it's their life, you know, the way they hold their hand, and the pen that they use, and the stationery they write on, and all of the little objects in their offices that have emotional significance to them, that they can write about that will relate to their audience, or the onboarding gifts that they give their audience, you know, or their clients when they come on. And all of those little props and things and, and just those little, the way they brainstorm ideas, do they look out a window? Do they do the coffee cup thing? Do they go walk around the park, you know, once you get all of those little nuts and bolts together, all of a sudden you have yourself a value, a very compelling and unique story visually that you can share to complement visually to your stories that you post online.

 

mark egan  32:31

And of course, you've kind of done that yourself, haven't you? Because you have created this niche where there's a demand people want their stories told and everything you've been able to do it. But you know, as well as I do, I mean, we were geeking out before we started recording about old cameras in the background of your office. There were a lot of people who have video production companies, videographers, photographers, who are really, really struggling right now. And possibly thinking Well, there's lots of students coming up, and they're willing to take pictures and video for no money and there's no future. In my skills, you've obviously been able to say Actually, let's look at my skills who are the most valuable to and just adjust it to basically offer more value. So what would your advice be to someone who's listening to this maybe has sometimes similar skills, but they're really struggling right now.

 

33:19

Lose the scarcity mindset and stop worrying about competition because it doesn't exist when you position yourself in a way that makes you uniquely you. Those are the two things that took me very many years to figure out. Once I decided to stop paying attention to what every other photographer was doing, I put the blinders on. And that's when everything started to click for me. At the end of the day, you need to have and this might sound you know very fortune cookie wisdom a but at the end of the day, you do need to believe that what you do is unique and it has value to people and the way in which that you disseminate that value through your expertise as well as your personality. Because and that's one thing I'd also throw out there as advice for videographers and photographers looking for work. It's that, you know, you have to be in a mindset that you can be able to break through because your personality is something that is marketable because people hire people, not just what they can do. So as a result, really impress upon people for your content and the way that you position yourself online and in personal conversation. You know who you are, because people are qualifying you left and right at all times. And you know, you need to give them the opportunity to truly understand who you are and how you do the work you do and the type of person that you present yourself to be.

 

mark egan  35:00

Question because I've probably gone a little bit over time. But I'm really interested in what you're talking about. This whole kind of boost both the expert field, which is people using their knowledge and expertise, you know, and the online learning space, both are predicted to grow massively. So firstly, what's your predicting where all this is going and yourself? What's your plan for the next five years do you have a kind of a roadmap or you just go wherever it takes you,

 

35:25

I, I'm not a big five year plan person. But I do have the vision. And that vision does involve doing more online courses, as well as building a community around it. And kind of building that up and offering other types of ways to help people who want to improve their self portraits. Because at the end of the day, I want to be able to kind of create opportunities for myself to monetize my expertise in a way that does not involve a camera in my hand every five seconds, not that I don't want to do it not that I'm, unconditionally in love with what I do. But you know, at a certain point, it's going to become a little difficult diving in between cars in New York City traffic, shooting people running around and doing all that stuff. So I want to be able to do that. And I think that the online space is only going to go up. Because if the pandemic has taught us anything, there is a lot of opportunity to grow and expand to do different things in your life simply by tuning into things on your screens. And it's a it's a great way for people to kind of figure out the life that they want to live. So I think in all areas online learning is just going to continue to grow.

 

mark egan  36:48

Oh, you're sitting in an office with a sailor's hat over one shoulder in the background. And a Viking helmet in the other say you're clearly living your best life. So finally, I'm sure you know, you've aroused a lot of interest in what you do. Where should people go to find out more about you?

 

37:05

The best place to go would be my website, john d'amato calm. And there my social links are on every page, you can follow me there. And if you're interested in learning about what makes a compelling visual story, I have a blog, I write about, I write three times a week. So I pump out a lot of stuff. And you can sign up on my on my website and save you the commute to my blog. I'll send the right to your inbox.

 

mark egan  37:32

Well, I love the pictures that I've seen that you've taken. Many of them I've actually seen just by the by and then oh, you took those. But I also like the whole kind of mentality and thing behind it. So congratulations on your success, wish you even more in the future, and I really appreciate your time. Thanks for having me, Mark. If you want to get started showing up on video and sharing your expertise, head over to Mark Egan video.com to access some of my free training. Don't forget to join the knowledge industry group on Facebook. And if you want to connect head to http://www.markeganvideo.com

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