Lucy Griffiths is the author of "Make Money While You Sleep". As a former journalist, she changed career path to create an online business. She has sold tens of thousands of courses and in this episode of The Knowledge Industry Podcast she tells Mark Egan how she successfully sells her courses and memberships.
To connect with Mark and check out some free training go to http://www.markeganvideo.com
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To connect with Lucy go to http://www.lucygriffiths.com
Coming up on the knowledge industry podcast,
it is possible for anybody to build an online business, it doesn't matter where you are. It doesn't matter that your geography, your health, your, your age, all of those things suddenly matter on the internet.
So today's topic is you may have created that course. But how do you sell it? My guess is Lucy Griffiths, who's the author of make money while you sleep? And she sold 10s of 1000s of online courses?
Do you sell online courses or run live workshops? Do you have expertise that can help people in life or business? Are you even running an online training empire from your kitchen table? Then you're part of the knowledge industry, a fast growing industry that means that you can learn almost anything, and anyone can create a business around what's between their ears. Welcome to the knowledge industry podcast with your host, Mark Egan.
So Lucy, great to talk to you just set the scene. Where are you at the moment
Hello, I am in a very frosty Cotswolds. I was just out for a run earlier and the frost is thick on the ground and it's a bit icy and slippery. So I'm in the Cotswolds just in temporary. So Prince Charles is my neighbor, but he doesn't ever give me any fruit and vegetables over the fence. Sadly,
you've not invited him over to say, Come on, Charlie, come on, we'll put the water right here for a quick matter.
Dissolve, he doesn't want to get to know me. So Kamila I've seen a couple of times helpful ways, but no child is having none of it.
Oh, he must be intimidated by your success, which we will talk about in a moment. But the I'm really glad that we're getting a chance to talk because there's so many similarities between your story of mine. So firstly, you know, I spent some time when I was young growing up in Germany and Detmold drive this violin. And you spent some time growing up in
when I was about six months old. My parents packed up their Fords hatchback for kids, and a trailer tent and drove across Europe. And we went to live in Berlin. Our house wasn't ready. So my parents decided to camp by the side of an airfield, which was RAF Gastao. And we lived and I was a baby. Remember, my mom had four kids. And we lived in this trailer tent for about six weeks until somebody first discovered that we're doing this and then felt sorry for my mom, and got some accommodation until we could move into a house. But that was really the start of sort of adventures and living abroad. And yeah, so we had four years in Berlin and then moved to Cyprus, and then Hong Kong and Washington. So yeah, so I had a fairly eventful childhood, let's say.
So that's one similarity. Germany, the other one is careers. So I was I used to work for BBC, local radio, TV, all that kind of stuff. And you yourself also worked in the broadcast industry.
Yeah, I started out in well, it's coming out to 25 years ago now. But local radio, did a good few years and local radio, and then got to the point where I was interviewing various pop stars. And I remember Mariah Carey didn't want to walk downstairs. And I just thought, Oh, my God, I can't cope with these people anymore. And so I decided that I was going to go traveling, so I left that world behind me and went traveling, and then ended up had an I didn't just say, or go on plane, go traveling. I went Overland. So on the way had various adventures, ended up working for a documentary series in Russia, creating this documentary about Siberia. And then ended up in Burma, and met these amazing women who were running a project about. It's called the Shawn Women's Action Network. And it was it was basically to try and help women who had been tortured by the military regime. And so I ended up working with Burmese refugees for a long time and trained a network of Burmese refugees to film and I always maintain those connections. So although I was freelancing, and then working with different news organizations, they were always in my downtime in my sort of new days and had time off, I'd go and spend time with them and work on those projects.
But then there's obviously a another big pivot which is, you know, to what you're doing now. So what was the change between, you're out there, you're using your media skills to empower people to help them. And then now you have a business, teaching online writing books, you know, appearing as the expert guest on TV, all this kind of thing with, well, how did that pivot happen?
So I had, so basically 20 years have been sort of 15 years of being in Asia, and then the last five years in the Middle East. And so in that time, I was, you know, working full time as a TV reporter covering many different stories. I was constantly on a plane, you know, I get a phone call from my bosses in New York, I have lots of American I've worked for lots of American TV networks. And they'd say, right, you know, go cover the story. And, you know, whether that was tsunamis, or floods, or the war in Afghanistan, or protests around the world. And so I'd be covering those stories, and they were huge adrenaline rushes. They were, it was, you know, very exciting. But also, you know, it was, you were seeing, witnessing things that were really painful and distressing. And, and it was, it was, it was quite exhausting. And so by the time I'd done a good 15 years ago, I was pretty burned out. And so I went back to the UK thinking, Okay, I'm going to, you know, settle down, do my thing, whatever. And I lived all those years, I was kind of single, and I thought, right, okay, this time, I'm gonna go meet someone have babies, all that all of that stuff. And so moved back. So I moved back for a guy. And then we ended up splitting up and I was really upset. And so I, I remember being really upset at work. And somebody came to me, it's most strange. They said, can we just have a quick, quiet word for a moment? So I was like, Okay. And they basically said, Why did I want to go and set up a TV station in Iraq? And for most people, they would say, What are you talking about? No, but for me, it's like, okay, so I literally off I went, a couple of weeks later, went and had a year setting up a TV station in Iraq, which was such a blessing in that process, I realized that, that I wanted to find a different way of working with people, because they were so traumatized. And so that's when I got really interested in coaching. And so I, while I was there, I could, in my timeout, you'd sort of go in for a certain amount of time, and then have timeout that I could do. So I did a master's degree in coaching. So I did that, and was coaching people there. And I was working very much I sort of focused my degree around PTSD and working using coaching to help with trauma and PTSD. And so I, so that was really how I sort of started coaching, really, by working with people with PTSD. And it was a lot of former journalist or journalists who, you know, have seen a witness terrible sites, as well as some aid workers and also the refugees I was working with. And then when my son was born in 2016, i 2015, should I say, I sort of took a break for a while, but it just didn't feel right to be doing. I just was no longer in the world of doing, you know, jumping on a plane and PTSD and I was sort of very much in the motherhood bubble. And I had, when I gave birth, I had a pretty traumatic birth and ended up having anal, and urine incontinence. So it meant that I couldn't, I couldn't walk down the hill without wetting myself, I couldn't really it was at times, it was difficult to leave the house. And so the worlds that I'd inhabited before where I was kind of jumping on the plane, you know, when I was pregnant, I was covering the conflict in Ukraine and dodging the Russian rebels and, you know, that whole world which was very much about me being, you know, I was very much quite gutsy. And, you know, I'd go off and do lots of different things that that whole world of my world just shrank. And so I didn't really feel like I could actually go into an office. I was very you know, the thought have basically wetting myself in the office was like, Oh my God, I don't know what I, it's not possible for me to even, you know, carry on professionally.
So in other words, lots of the options that you would naturally go back to, you didn't feel comfortable for, for those reasons to go back to them. So you then had to kind of think of a new way to be yes.
And, and I was having to go to the hospital twice a week for like various physio, and I was I was doing this kind of experimental treatment with acupuncture. And so it meant there was quite a, you know, it was, it was a good two days a week that we're kind of out with, with having treatment. And so I started basically, while I was breastfeeding, my son, I started on my phone just thinking, Okay, well, why don't we just build an online business? And so it sort of evolved out of that very much. Went back to the coaching that I'd done my, the master's degree in, but I had sort of thought, okay, how can I make this into something that's actually a business that's tangible? And so, so from that thought, well, I teach people I worked a lot with kind of doing some consultancy with, with various big organizations, you know, for the Unilever, about helping their CEOs within camera confidence, I thought, Okay, well, maybe I just do that, but for small businesses and do it online. And that was really the starting point. And so I was working very much still in sort of one to one capacity, or I was going and doing filming with people. But again, that was quite difficult with all the health issues I had. And so that was really the starting point for me to start to build a course. And I was doing it while being very much a full time mom, my son is autistic, and so I'm very hands on with him. And so I sort of would do it in the evenings, a lot of my clients, the one to one clients, I had what in the evening, just because it worked better with being a parent. And so my clients, predominantly were in the US. And so I started the course, and then from there would, it grew, and I was able to, you know, sell it into various presentations, talk to people use the power of Facebook and YouTube, in order to sell the course. And I got to a point where now I've sold 50,000 of those courses, it's called competent on camera, and, you know, it's $19. So it's something that's really tangible, that people can get hold off and, and access easily.
But I have to stop you there. Because there's like a kind of a jump there, which you kind of just say, you know, this is just threw together a course and then you know, so 10s of 1000s of them. It's just what you do. But of course, a lot of people have the same idea thinking, You know what, I'll create a course I've got some expertise, they make their course and nobody buys it. Now, you know, you didn't have necessarily a background in advertising or you know, online business or whatever. So you know, you've created your course, but how did you actually get that in front of people? And why do you think you were able to succeed when so many other people have courses, which nobody or nobody has access?
I think in the beginning, no one was really doing what I was, you know, now there's more people who are definitely teaching doing what, what I do, and I'm constantly seeing people who sort of either using my name or my, that I've copyrighted or that, you know, so. So I think in the beginning that there weren't many people doing what I was doing. So that was number one. Number two, I really did leverage when Facebook was a more friendly algorithm place. You know, I go into Facebook groups and do trainings. And so that helped me to start selling in the first place. And, and I really harness the power of YouTube in order to get found with keywords. So using the power of Google search, because blogging and Pinterest, and using all of those tactics, which worked really well, you know, five years ago, three years ago, now, Facebook has shifted, it's harder to get seen. And it's harder to grow an audience right now. So at that point, as things started to, you know, started to pick up then I was able to say, right, I'm going to start doing Facebook ads. So used Facebook ads in order to sell my courses And that obviously got me so many more millions of eyeballs on my courses so. And that's really enabled me to sell a great deal more.
What was your process of, you know, your audience before you like said, We're CEOs and Iraqi news anchors and stuff like that? Obviously this is a completely different market. How did you go about that process of thinking, Well, who am I appealing to here? And how am I making sure that my message is connecting with the right kind of people? How did you? Was that something that just was intuitive? Or did you go through some kind of process or survey?
So I always recommend that you, you know, talk to people that are around you, who you connect with? I think I sort of appeal to I'm in my 40s. And I appeal to people who are in their 40s and 50s. That's not to say I don't have you know, the stats do say that I have a younger demographic as well. But I definitely the people who buy from your in their 40s 50s 60s. I've got I've got some clients actually who are in their 80s Unbelievably, creating businesses. And I've got this amazing guy called Stan, who is building a community. And even that, yes, it was he is a real character who was telling me a story yesterday how he he was there for Martin Luther King's speech, I have a dream. And you know, I mean, you know, so people have bra vast experience and background doesn't matter what age you are, you can build a course, and build a successful online business. And that's the amazing thing that's so liberating about the online world, but you don't need to, you just need a laptop or your phones and an idea and a willingness to share it with people.
And obviously, you've written the book now. So congratulations on that, you know, seems to be on lots of bestseller lists, and all there. What do you think, you know, like, if if, I mean, obviously, people need to get the book. But what would you know, what are two of the main kind of points or concepts you would want to get across to somebody who maybe is thinking, you know, I've got some expertise, maybe it's a completely different field. But you know, I see so many people trying and failing, what would be the kind of one or two things that you would pick out, say, Look, this is if you get this right or focus on this, this is the kind of thing that makes a difference.
So definitely, when you've got a nugget of an idea, you want to test it and validate it. So make sure that it is something that people really want. And you can do that quite easily by just gauging reaction from people, whether that's the mums at the school gate, people at the pub, obviously using things like Facebook groups, or your social media, on LinkedIn, wherever it may be. Also, surveys are great on email or questions, quizzes, using something like Instagram Stories, asking questions there. But you want to ask people if they if they think it's a good idea for you. So don't worry about oh, they're gonna steal my idea. You just you really want to test it out. And because nobody, even if you might get duplications of you, and they're copying your idea, nobody can take your knowledge, your expertise away from you. So test it out with people. And if people are if they say, oh, yeah, that sounds interesting. That is, you know, read the room think. Whereas if they say, Oh, my god, that's amazing. I want that that would work so well, for my brother in law, you then know, I'm on to a winner, because you can really tell that difference in energy. And so use that to make sure that you've got the right idea. I have this client is a dear friend Ashley, who. So she basically is a she rescues people from the streets of New York and so works to get drug drug addicts off the streets and into shelters. And she's always running out of money, as you might imagine. And so she basically decided to do a course in order to kind of supplement her rental income and everything else. And she built this course, and it was selling but it wasn't really selling. I just felt like there's something better that actually could be doing. And so while she could do a course and you know, it was sort of working with women and healthy happy in themselves, actually her real purpose is showing other so she's she's quite religious, and so she works sort of as she's got missionary, I guess. And so it showing other missionaries, her real purpose. Actually, you could show other missionaries how you can also make money online. So then, and then she was like, oh, yeah, okay. And then suddenly, she's now making real sums of money rather than just sort of scraping by suddenly now she's like, Oh, wow, I've got enough money that I can build a whole new Women's Refuge in Connecticut, I can afford to buy the house I've got, I can have a nice life. And I'm helping other people also make more money. And so, you know, the online world, you don't have to just do it. Because you know, and I'm talking about something where she's completely extreme, where she's, it's all about, you know, for helping other people in her mission. But it's amazing what you do when you suddenly realize, Oh, I've got that skill set. And that skill set is really needed. And so you know, it's flipping that switch. Sometimes you might obsess about something you've just learned, you might have just done a course in flower arranging, or Reiki and think, Oh, I'm going to do that. But actually, I've got 20 years experience in marketing, or I'm great at grant applications. And those kind of really niche skills, whether it's grant applications, or teaching people how to make model tractors where it's really Nish, it is infinitely more appealing is appealing to a smaller amount of people that not everyone is going to want to be interested in how to make model tractors, or how to run a successful mission and you know, be some kind of small charity, but to those people who want that, then they're absolutely going to dive into that knowledge. Because it's because there's only a few people doing it. And so the more niche you can be the better.
But one of the challenges that those same people have, you know, when it's like, actually, I'm not in it for the money I'm in it for other things, is that then they have big issues with pricing. And say, Well, you know, I almost feel bad charging for this, because I want people to have this information, this knowledge. Now you've been successful. And interestingly, you know, the first course that you offer is extremely kind of reasonably priced, what's your kind of approach to pricing courses and pricing products,
okay, so there's two strategies you can really use with step pricing your courses. So one strategy is that you have something like a webinar, and you're selling people into the webinar, and then you have a higher priced offering. So it might be around the 907 mark. So you don't want to tip over the 907 mark on a webinar. If you are wanting to sell something much higher ticket, you know, couple of 1000 2000 could be $2,000 2000 pounds. You that's when it means that you are it might be you're having a video, they watch the video, and then you arrange a sales call for your course. If it's under the 1000 pound $1,000 Mark, then then you can sell it online without needing a sales call. But you would probably need something like a webinar where it's a bigger presentation, and you get them more excited about it. Whereas if you're doing something where it's you know, it's a small mini course. And then you don't necessarily need to give them the whole shebang, the webinar, you can sell that for a smaller amount of money. And I like to think of that as your cupcake offering. And so essentially, like, you know, you you think you walk past the bakers, and you see these amazing cupcakes, you know, the ones that are kind of pink icing, I mean it really beautiful, and they've got all these sparkly designs on it. Oh, wow, that's so pretty. And that's your dazzling, tempting offer. And so you It's irresistible. So you have to have that cupcake. And so you get the cupcake, but then they say, Oh, well, would you like a coffee with that? Or would you like some extra things with it? Maybe, oh, perhaps you'd like to sit down and get a coffee for your friends and Oh, before you know it, you've bought not just the cupcake, but two cups of coffee, and maybe some olives or something else as well. And not necessarily the bakery. But, but so from that perspective, it's the entry offering. And so you have something small and tangible that then feeds people into buying other things. And so if you then it starts out being you know, $19 might seem pounds 27 Something like that around that price point. But if you're then also up Selling them into other things. So let's say a secondary course, for, say 27. And maybe a bigger course for 297. If you're then doing that process, the average order value increases from $19, to a much higher percentage. So for me, I have my initial course. And then my second course about 40% of people buy the second course. And a smaller percentage of people buy my third course, and my fourth course. But by doing that, I'm gradually increasing just by small incremental amounts. And it's literally by testing and tweaking to do this, and increasing the number of people who buy those other products further down my funnel. And by doing that, it means that I am making more and more profits in so I'm spending money on Facebook ads, but I'm making double three times depending on the day, how much profit I'm bringing back in to the business. And so that's how you can easily scale the business and sell a lot of courses. But also make a profit from the backend. So that you have a really strong viable business. And then as you've got people, you get people into your membership. So I have a membership on the back, which is called make money while you sleep. And so people join that. And then I get the recurring income from that every single month. And of course, people get the support of being in that community, they get support with, you know, whether it's copywriting or Facebook ads, or you know, all of those, all of those things that you need to run an online business and make money while you sleep. And so, you, you give that and you're giving value all the time. So you keep people you want to retain people in the membership, and then you're not going out getting new leads new customers, you are getting that recurring income every month. And so those are the ways that sort of produces various streams of income into the business. And then of course, you can also then have a sprinkling of one to one clients work with them. And any other additional income streams that you may have, as well, you know, for other courses or other services you may have
fell in love it. One thing that you do really, really well, which I think is also part of your successes, your kind of personal brand, you've obviously the skills have been transferable. But obviously like I said before, it's a different market. So you know, what would be your advice to somebody looking at what you've done? And they're thinking, well, like, you clearly have kind of a really coherent story, personal brand, kind of the look of everything. You know, now you've got the book, you put your audience, you put your credibility, so somebody is thinking, look, I want to build my personal brand and attract that audience, what would be your main advice to them? So when
it comes personal branding, and really think, what are my stories? What are my standout stories that make a difference. And so you want to weave those stories into everything you do. So you know, whether it's stories about challenges that you've had to overcome, you think of it as a hero's journey. And so weave in those stories, because people want to be able to relate to people they like, you know, say three or four years ago, Instagram was kind of glossy and curated, and it was all about pretty pictures. Now it's about very much about being real and authentic. So the more you can be real and authentic, the better. And so tell those stories, share challenges, things you're going through. Like I posted yesterday, I've not driven because obviously I was living in living in Asia didn't drive so much then living in London, I didn't really drive and then suddenly now I'm in the car was like, Oh my God, I've got to start driving. So I went for a refresher lessons the other day, and so you know, did a post about that sharing about my fears about that. So be open, be vulnerable. You don't have to share everything in your life. But sharing those vulnerabilities and those stories helps people connect with you. So I definitely talk around. I'll talk around, you know, challenges I have with parenting, or definitely during pandemic, my addiction to chocolate brownies, or how I've started running and being really slow and terrible at it, you know, so you don't have to, it's not about being perfect. And then also having a really coherent With those stories, also recognizing what uh, what are the things that I'm going to be known for. And so the strong brand messages of what you're going to be known for. And then of course, back it up with the branding, whether that's the colors, the, you know, the logo, all of those things. And once you've got things that you like, like, I'm, I've got quite strong personal branding around my colors, simply because I've always loved pink and red. So for me, those are my brand colors, they're in my logo. But they've always been things that I love. I mean, if you look at pictures of me in Afghanistan, I'm wearing a pink shower kameez. He was literally like, Oh, my God, blending in with the Taliban are definitely going to spot you. But you know, that was always me. And even even going to cover the craziest of stories I always did turning up with a handbag, like a red handbag or a pink handbag, and people would just be like, Oh my God. But it's it also meant that people connect it like this, and it's connecting with me on the ground. So I'd always find that, it by being that way. And being myself, the number of times where I did encounter dodgy Taliban situations, I think because I was so girly, girly. They, they were sort of disarmed by me. And so it got me out of dodgy situations. But in the same way, in personal branding, it helps you stand out. So I'm not saying you have to do pink is pink is not your thing. But make it really distinctive, make it beautiful. So find look at people's personal branding, find out who are really good at personal branding. And one of the things I've really learned is that sometimes we sort of think we need to go for the person who's really expensive, or whatever. But actually, you can find your own people that aren't necessarily like hugely expensive, but they, you can work with them for many, many years. Like i i, the person I work with, I've worked with for sort of five years. And, you know, she's a, she's a mom, and she just, she basically does stuff for me on a Sunday. And so I have to be really organized to get it all in. And when I tried, sometimes she'd been on maternity leave or whatever, and she's not available. And I've tried other things, and I've maybe spent way more money, but I don't ever get the same, that same attention to detail and the same joy and connection to find your people. And having that team around your people who really get you and your brand is really important.
Great. Now there's two quick things I want to ask you before I let you go. The book, obviously, you know, if your online world, you're making courses, everything's going well. Like, what was the reasoning behind the book, you know, so why did you write the book, and kind of tied to that, you know, one of the ways that you've been promoting the book is actually, you know, appearing on TV programs, which a lot of course creators, but you know, presumably, it's partly because of your media background. But you know, you don't see that many of the people that you see out there being successful creating courses actually being on mainstream media, being guests, and all that kind of thing. So, so why did you write the book? And also what was your approach to actually promoting that book with actually beyond, you know, ads or the traditional ways of promotion?
Oh, I have wanted to write a book. Since I have got little books I started writing when I was about seven or eight. My dad would even build me bookshelves, my books. So I've wanted to write a book for years, and have definitely started and stopped various books along the way. I was. So I also do joint ventures with with brands and influencers and basically do all the behind the scenes and they're the face of their brand. And so I was working with someone who said, Oh, you should meet my agent. So I met her just before lockdown. And I sort of said, I've got this nugget of an idea. And I'm thinking the title is make money while you sleep. And she loved it. She said, Oh, yes. Great. And then of course, the pandemic hits and she was like, Oh, do you think that's the like that type of I think I think people will, because at the time I was I'd been really ill with COVID and despite not working for six months, and recovery and homeschooling, I was still making money for my courses. It was still all running without me being involved in the business. And so that was so I sort of allowed myself to recover. And then had a couple of months to write. Write the proposal and we took it. We took it to a couple of publishers literally In. So it was like February 2021. And somebody one of one of the people read it. And she literally contacted my agent immediately and said, yes want Lucy to write this, but I want her to write it in three months. And, and so at the time, I was still, we literally were just about to move to the Cotswolds. And I was we were in the middle of homeschooling. And so I said, Okay, yes. And I thought, well, there's no way I can do this till my son goes back to school. So I basically ended up not having three months, I had 12 weeks, and just thought, Okay, well, what I'm going to do is a chapter a week, and just get this done. And so that's what happened. And some weeks, I would definitely be procrastinating, and I get to Friday, and be like, Oh my God, I've not read my chapter this week, and get up at sort of four or 5am, I'm an early bird anyway, and just write and then get it done by Sunday. And I was like, okay, for you, it's done. And once you're in the flow, you're in the flow. And so that's that, so got it down, I delivered within 12 weeks. And so yeah, so that was basically how the book came about. For publicity. My I would say, if you are self publishing, it's, you know, it's harder to get that, that sort of doors to open. Whereas, because I was publishing the more traditional route, the downside of publishing with a traditional publisher is they sort of control a lot more, you get less profits, but doors open. And so, so yeah, so I was invited, had quite a lot of media appearances and invited to be on Morning live a BBC show, talking about courses, and how you can make money while you sleep.
Great. Well, I mean, again, congratulations to get just getting the book written is a major achievement. And then for it to be kind of successful. And like you say, with, you know, COVID homeschooling, we just one of those elements would be normally be a good excuse for somebody to overcome all of those that that's great. Just in closing, if you could, you know, sum up and again, you know, people need to go out and get the book and everything, what you know, what would be your sort of overwhelming or overarching message that you know, through your experience through your media training, to starting an online business and all that kind of thing, there must be people out there who would benefit from following in your footsteps. And during that journey, what would be your message to them.
If anybody, it is possible for anybody to build an online business, you know, and that is the wonders of this world, that it doesn't matter where you are, it doesn't matter about your geography, your health, your you know, your age, all of those things doesn't matter on the internet, it's about building an audience. And making sure that you, you know, connect with your people. So being true to you connecting with your people. And then from that, once you've connected with them, offering you know, advice or information or support or building that community entertainment, and maybe it's a mix of all those things from that, then it's being able to make offers that people want being able to sell something it might be one to one services at first. And then from that getting into things like digital products, or maybe it's selling your paintings, whatever it may be, you can sell your services or your products but it know that it is possible and it's just about being willing to put yourself out there build that audience and then making offers that people find irresistible.
Fantastic. Well, I could go on and on and on, but I know that you are a busy got many other things to do. Okay, so two ways that people should take action now one is go and if they haven't already ordered the book, make money while you sleep. And if they want to come and you know, check out some of your other courses, where should they?
So I'm Lucy griffiths.com. And also my a lot of my social media handles whether that's Instagram or LinkedIn is Lucy Griffith and then do T Colm so.com again. And yeah, so I'd love to connect with you. I'm known to do very silly reels on Instagram, or not having a chat on LinkedIn or Facebook.
You know, it's been quite funny chatting to you because maybe it's partly because the similarity in some of our backgrounds, but internally I've just been non stop myself. Just stop nodding like an idiot for the whole kind of thing. Because even some of the kind of the terms the way you describe things, I'm just so like, yes, yes, that's that's and some things I always say. So, yeah, I'm really pleased with your success. It's really, obviously inspirational. Especially, I know, I don't like to get nationalistic. But it's great to see some, you know, Brits doing well in this kind of space. But also, just like you're saying at the very beginning that you know that this isn't just about making money if you have some expertise that can help people is something that can have a real impact. So I wish you continued success on the book. I'm literally as I promised just beforehand, I'm just off to Amazon to write my review. But I wish you continued success. And hopefully we'll speak again soon.
Thank you so much for having me. Don't forget
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