How to create a coaching business around your expertise with Fabienne Raphael

Could you earn a living coaching people, using your expertise and experience. Fabienne Raphael has been a TV presenter, Handball player and now a coach. In this podcast she explains why coaching works and how she uses her "DREAM" method to transform people's lives and businesses.  To find out more about Fabienne go to https://go.fabienneraphael.com/home/?r_done=1

 

 

 

 

 To find out more about Fabienne go to https://go.fabienneraphael.com/home/?r_done=1

Transcript:

 

00:00

Coming up on the knowledge industry podcast,

 

Fabienne  00:02

being someone who's open to to help others, but also has a high level of empathy and cares a lot about, you know, the well being of their clients. I think that these three things if you have them, you could be the best coach in your market.

 

mark egan  00:20

So in this episode, we're going to talk specifically about coaching with my guests, Gabby and rafaelle. Fabien has a background in sport, business TV, you name it. Now, she helps high achievers monetize their knowledge, replace their income, fire their job, and become their own boss, so they can live their purpose and change lives by building their coaching business.

 

00:41

Do you sell online courses or run live workshops? Do you have expertise that can help people in life or business? Are you even running an online training Empire from your kitchen table? Then you're part of the knowledge industry, a fast growing industry that means that you can learn almost anything, and anyone can create a business around what's between their ears. Welcome to the knowledge industry podcast with your host, Mark Egan.

 

mark egan  01:08

So firstly, thanks for joining us, how are things in Montreal? Yeah, things are great, great. How are things on your end? Well, weather is improving. And by English standards, that is things are looking at. But um, I really appreciate you coming on this podcast. Because the thing I mean, I met you a few years ago at New Media Europe PR conference, and we just worked out that there was five years ago, as you get older time just goes more quickly. But the thing I really love about your story is that often people say, you know, when it comes to this whole knowledge industry, and you know what expertise you have? How can you help people? It's like, well, I don't know, you know, I've done lots of different things. And when I got your bio, but normally get a bio from somebody, it's like they did this, they did this and then that that naturally led to that. With your bio, it's like, it'll be easier to see what you haven't done than what you had done. So before we get into, you know what you're doing now and how you're helping people and all this kind of stuff. You know a bit about your background. So you left school, where were you What happened?

 

Fabienne  02:11

Oh, God, nothing, nothing. Everything different than a straight line for sure. When I when I graduated, I graduated as a physical therapist, and I worked a few years as an employee. And before my third year started, I got an opportunity to go play team handball in Denmark, because I used to be an elite athlete and played for Team Canada, for handball, and one of my dreams have always to evolve in a team in Europe. So I got this opportunity to go play in Denmark. So I lived in Denmark, two years playing handball was amazing. I, when I came back, I stayed an employee for a few years. And then, and then I met my business and life partner. And I guess he had great influence on me because he was already into working for himself, personal development, attending conferences. So I got to that I was open minded. So I started doing that. And then eventually, I transferred from being an employee, physical therapist to a consultant in physical therapy. And that led to me having my health care agency, having also a home staging business goes on the side, I was really passionate about decoration. And then with that business, I was able to go on television with, you know, a show that we pitched and that was accepted. And then, and then eventually, with attending more conferences, and all that stuff, I fell in love with online marketing, I was at this conference, and they were talking about online marketing and having a coaching business like oh, my God, like, this is what I need to be doing, you know, being online, right? It seems to be like the dream for me, especially about the lifestyle and the freedom, the freedom that it could provide. So so this is why I took the decision. Okay, let me explore the online opportunities. But then even online when I started online, really more seriously, I would say was with my podcast marketing to crush your competitors. And then I was able to connect with so many influencers from all around the world, learning a lot about marketing, about having my business and about a ton of stuff, and nurturing and developing relationships. And then I guess with time and the fact that I was learning more about myself what I want, who I wanted to serve, then it got into like really the online business coaching that I'm doing today. So now what I do is I help high achievers monetize their knowledge, replace their income, fire their jobs, so they can become their own boss and finally live their purpose and change lives like they were meant to do because they all feel that it's their life's mission. So as you can see, I've touched like so many things, and it all led to online coaching.

 

mark egan  04:58

Well, yeah, I can tell buy into that. You know, I was thinking today actually, if I had to go back to a job, because years ago worked at the BBC. Now, I'm kind of my own boss, I'd be a terrible employee. If I ever went back to that, just by mindset. It's so wrong for all that. But I love the way you know. I mean, if I played team handball, and by the way, you know, if you're not familiar for how big handball is, you know, I do. In the past, I've done lots of work with European handball Federation. So I've been to these big arenas, and I'm guessing as the FC Copenhagen, maybe you played for I don't know, but it's like, it's a huge sport. And, you know, you represented Canada at certain level, that if I did that, I'd be walking around every day with the tracksuits. He represented Canada, by the way. And then you just throw in that, oh, yeah, the home staging business and the TV show and all that kind of, can you pick a common thread out of all that? Like, is there something when you look back all your experiences, that you can kind of tie that together and say, Yep, this, this is the common thread that all of those hold?

 

05:55

Yeah, it's the before and after effect. You know, as a physical therapists, you work with clients, and then when they come in, they have an injury. And then you have to find out about analyze what the condition might be, and then have a treatment plan, implement it and make them feel better. So help them feel better. So before, like, let's say they're limping and after, like they're running, okay? So that's for physical therapy, the home staging, I mean, when you get into a home, and home staging, you want to prepare the home for sale. So when you come in, most of the time, it's cluttered, it's not like really up to date, or the colors are not great. And then you make those changes, and then the house is appealing. And they they received a lot of offers. And you know, they have like the highest bid for buyer for their home. So that's also the before and after. And I would say with my online business, you know, when I start working with aspiring coaches, or coaches that I've that have tried to make it work, and it doesn't work, well, they're overwhelmed. They don't know if it's going to work, they don't know where to what to do next. And then when they finish working, like you see they have clarity, they've changed their mindset, you know, they feel more confident in their expertise. So So yeah, I would say like the common thread is always like the before and after effect.

 

mark egan  07:14

And I think that goes down to one of the misconceptions about online education, isn't it that people aren't necessarily buying a course or coaching, what they're buying is some kind of transformation that you're able to give them. I mean, when you have people and you're helping people when they come to you, and they say, Look, I've done this, and I've done this probably not as much as you To be fair, but they've done various different things. how, you know, they say, look, I want to leave my job, I want to make a living, helping people teaching them whatever they want to do, how do you kind of drill down and figure out, like, what they should pitch and what bits of experiences they need to use.

 

07:46

Okay, so first of all, like the people, when they come to work with me, they already know what they're great at. So they know where their zone of genius is, like they're know what their mission on this earth is, but they just don't know how to monetize it how to, you know, make a coaching program out of it. And this is why they need help with, so people don't come to me to get clarity about, you know, what their many passions are and pick one and then and then go with it whatsoever. But if some of the people like if you're listening right now, and this is the state you're in, I would I would tell you to pick one, if you don't know which one, and then you'll like, oh, I'll do a little bit of this and a little bit of that. And then I could serve everyone about everything, well, this is where it goes wrong. Because you're trying First of all, you spread yourself too thin. And then second of all, like, it's impossible for you to find the right message to to communicate with the right audience when you try to serve everyone. Um, so like most of the time, what people end up coaching others about is either something that they already have an expertise that like it could be former work experience, or sometimes it's a very big challenge that they've they've overcome in their lives. And they overcame. And after that thinking about it, they realized that there were very specific steps they were able to, to make in order to achieve that goal. So they want to help others do the same. Sometimes it has to do with something that's completely different. I mean, someone who wants to have this education, and then they go have be self educated on a specific topic through many courses, or many, many private schools or whatsoever, and then they decide to take that and help others with it. So so it could be like different things. But the common thread is that you need to find a solution to a problem where people are actively already looking to solve. Because sometimes people are very excited about their business idea or their coaching business and they're like, yeah, I'm going to help people do that. And then the big question is Okay, is there money in that market? Like, are people really looking for that or not? And if they are, well, great, I mean, it's it's it's a it's a thread that's, that's worth following. But if if it's not, then yeah, it might be a good idea to find something else and see like, really where the the money is that it's not about the fact that business has to do with, you know, your coaching business has to do with money, money, money focus, but then, you know, if you want your business to survive and be sustainable at a certain point, well, yeah, you got to go with where the market wants to invest in?

 

mark egan  10:27

And can you give me an example, maybe I'm somebody you work with, or type of industry, where somebody come to you and like, what transformation Were you able to create, like a kind of, just to sort of put it in concrete terms.

 

10:41

Okay. So, for example, I work with a leadership coach, that's an example I give you. And what she helps leaders with is to be able to lead their team more effectively. And what comes up with these leaders, when she starts working with them, is the fact that they feel overwhelmed, or they have problems communicating with their team, so they can get the best out of their team, their results might have been like less than what they were doing the years before, self confidence starts to go lower, because they see that they're not getting the results as they were before and all that stuff. So the work that she does with them is to actually help them recognize being self aware way more, and give them tools and strategies in order to be able to manage conflicts or being able to communicate with different types of personalities the right way, and bring on the strengths of all their members. So the results can be more effective. And they could see, like actually see it in their bottom line, like in the company. So that's what she helps her leaders with. And most of the time when people finish working with her, they say that they have like more confidence in their leadership capacities. And, and sometimes also, you know, it's leaders that consider maybe quitting that job, and then realize it's not the job that was the problem is the inner work that they had to do. And after doing that work, they fall in love with their job again. So that's just one one example that I can give you.

 

mark egan  12:16

And when it comes to the coaching side of things, because obviously, you have things like online courses, you have a group coaching, how does it work? So you know, somebody comes to you and says, I've got this issue? Like, how often do you speak to them? How do you structure a kind of a coaching session?

 

12:31

Okay, so um, so most of the depends, it depends what the needs of the clients are when they come to me. So I have like several levels of access that I can give to people. But let's say like the most where people go Moses for the mastermind group, and it's called the coochie, the coaching math, let me say that, again, the coaching Empire elite mastermind group, and with that mastermind, what they go through is definitely my dream method, which is the framework that I teach all my clients, and then they get support every week to answer that questions and know what to focus on to go with that their next step, especially because we have taken time to establish quarterly and nearly goes, right, so so it's all about getting the advantage of being in a community. Because I strongly believe that when you team up with people who think the same way and have ambition, like you, and are doing the work and really, truly get you Well, it really collapses time and it allows you to go quicker on accomplishing a ton of things, right? So that's 111 program that I offer, but then for people that are just like getting started and are not ready for that huge commitment. I also have the coaching biz accelerator, which is a course where you get some type of support from me, but of course, not as intense as in the mastermind group, but where I'm there to answer your questions about the content that you go through. And that's an intensive program that's about six weeks long. And then there's also the higher level of support that you can get with my private coaching. So whoever is in my private coaching, they get more access to me and then they also have the advantages of being in the mastermind group. So, so those are the three levels of support that people can get when they work with me.

 

mark egan  14:29

Okay, now, I'm bringing it back to you. Obviously, a lot of people with the whole lockdowns have been kind of working from home and thought, you know, this would be quite a good lifestyle to be able to work from anywhere. I mean, how is your life different now compared to when you're in a normal job?

 

14:45

A lot, I mean, a lot and of course like it when first of all like when you quit your job and when you used to have a schedule given by someone telling you what to do when to do it and you know, respond to clients coming in. Then all that and having a certain time to deliver the treatment, I mean, it's quite like it's not flexible at all. But when you start working for yourself, you need to manage actually, that time that you have all that time is for you. And so so for whoever is looking to make that switch, well, you have to be aware of the fact that it's going to be some type of, you know, adjustment. Because all of a sudden, you don't have anyone telling you what to do at what time and you are the only responsible for finding like, what are the key elements or the key things you need to work on in order to get to achieve that goal at a certain point. So if it's a weekly goal, or a monthly goal, or a yearly goal on what so whatsoever, so So I would say for me personally, like, and you spoke about the pandemic since the pandemic started. I know that was an adjustment phase, especially at the beginning where everyone was in the house all the time. So So to me, I had to change when I was working on the business, because because my little one is only now he's three, but at the time, it was two and he was requiring like a lot of attention. So I couldn't work at the same time as he was home because he was asking a lot of my energy, right, so I had to work like late, mostly when he was in bed in the evening, right. But But what I feel that really brought into my life, the most important thing is really to focus on the essentials, you know, I realized that there was still a few things that I was doing that were not necessary to be doing. Or maybe sometimes I had the impression that I was doing something. But really, if I evaluated what was the overall, the overall result of doing that over over time, it wasn't really necessary to be doing. So I would say like the most, the biggest lesson I've learned from that pandemic is really to focus on the key essential activities to get to hitting my goal faster. Right. So, um, so yeah, I feel that, that it made me a better person. And this is also like, what I teach my clients, you know, to simplify their way of living, it's not true that when you work online, you have to be in front of the computer 24 seven, or respond to your clients, like all the time or work on weekends, and whatsoever, you know, there's this thing about First of all, having the right strategy to implement. Second of all being intentional and having the right energy whenever you produce that content, or whenever you show up. And then third, third thing is about, you know, like, when you communicate with either your potential clients or or your clients, well, are they're a great fit to work with you and are they people that you know, that you can lead from this to this result, right, with the help that you can provide? So So yeah, I would say that simplify simplifying is is the biggest lesson. And, and I know and I'm sure that many other people this is what they realized, too, that sometimes we were focusing energy on things that didn't really matter.

 

mark egan  18:09

No, going back to you know, you said about getting people to, uh, you know, they can ditch their job. When I left my job, I kind of been doing a very clever way. I you know, I kind of left but I haven't really prepared anything. Oh, advice you give somebody who may be listening and thinking, you know, I like the sound Jewish, I do have some expertise, I could coach or teach or whatever, I could earn a living this way. I'm currently in a job, is it better to build this up? And then see if it works? Is it better to burn your bridges and jump? And then it has to work? Or, you know, do you have a kind of? How would we know what kind of things do you tend to advise people to do if they're still in their job, but they're thinking of making this transition?

 

18:47

Well, I'll tell you my opinion, but it doesn't mean that it's good for everyone. But from my point of view, like before, leaving something that you already have building, building your coaching business on the side is recommended because when you get started, you might be all excited. And then along the way you realize that it's not necessarily for you, or, or you start, let's say in in a segment of the market, and then something happens in your life and you realize that you have to pivot your business or to switch whatever and then you it might take you a longer time to get the results that you expected. So like I always advise people that you know, if they already have something, not to quit it unless like they're able to accomplish their goals with their coaching business or they have like a certain amount of, of of income or savings for at least like six months to a year to to not put the pressure on themselves about like the performance in their coaching business. Because I believe that when it's okay, it's okay. It's important to achieve goals and it's okay to fix goals. It's important, but also there's something else when The financial pressure comes with it, it's as if like, you feel that you need to do more you feel more pressure, your energy is not the same. So so what you project or how you communicate with your clients might not be totally you, it might be you but being pressured by financial obligations, right? So, so I made me recommend to people that if they are at their job at the moment, even if the job is like, you know, on the verge of it, they're they're over, like, they're tired of being there, or they're frustrated at their job, just to switch to mindset and see the job, as you know, as a board for them to go to that next step, which is being a full time online coach, right? Just like not seeing the right way, knowing that they're not staying at that job forever. But just maybe for a few months, before, like, or, or a year, let's say, depending on how long it takes for them to sort of play there and comment and achieve that goal in business.

 

mark egan  20:58

Obviously, you deal with a lot of people and a lot of people, you know, wanting to be coaches, and you said, You know, sometimes they've got expertise, but they're struggling to monetize it. What are the main recurring problems that you see people coming up against?

 

21:10

It's like, it's mostly like self confidence, it's in that it's in their head, it's a story that they stay in their heads, you know about the fact Okay, I'm muted this, because I'm new, I'm starting my coaching business, like no one is going to believe me, or trust me enough to invest in me. But what I tell people in that situation is that like, your expertise is not new. What you're great at is not new, you're not a beginner at what you know, you can help people with, let's say you're a beginner with Yeah, maybe having the business skills and everything, but your your knowledge or expertise that's already inside of you. So basically, even if you didn't have a business today, if someone came in with that specific problem that you can solve, you would be able to help them out. Right, so So this is, this is how like the word get started, like mostly with a lot of self awareness, but also recognizing like all the potential and the power that they already have, with their own skills, because most of the time people feel that they need more, and they need to be like doing more or study more, you know, there's one client I worked with, and I remember how were first called, she told me, yeah, but let me let me get that let me get that credentials, those credentials. Still, before I go on and work with you. And I'm like, why do you need these credentials? Like you already have everything to help the people that you told me to help? Right? Because because she had told me about them and, and she decided to start working with me. And she Yes, she realized along the way that she didn't need to go after these extra credentials. So yeah, the main the main issues are mostly like, Am I good enough? Do I have enough? And will people trust me enough to invest in my business?

 

mark egan  22:53

Yeah, I can totally relate to that, where people have this idea that if they're going to teach coach do anything with their knowledge, that it's almost like they expect the queen to come along with a big sword and make them or something and say, right, now it's official, now you can go out into the world, whereas essentially, you know, sometimes people are one step ahead, can sometimes be more useful than somebody 10 steps ahead, because they kind of gone through it more recently, and can identify more easily. Now, as far as you know, I'm sure there's people listening, who will be thinking, you know, what? Sounds really, really good. You know, I'd like to get into this. How, how is your you know, since you've gone into this, obviously, I know you've done very well. But for people who don't know you, and maybe don't know how successful you've been, tell us a bit about your journey since you started doing this, and you know, how it's kind of changed your life.

 

23:40

Okay, so I would say that when I got started, and that's why I always tell my clients, they're lucky because I've done so many mistakes before, like working with them. So I helped them avoid these mistakes. And one of the big mistakes that I've that I've done when I got started was that I thought I could do it all on my own right, that I was super woman able to learn everything about, like all the aspects of running a business because I could do it and, and it took me a while to hire my first my first business coach and then I remember that when I did that, I was like, why did I wait so long before getting the support? Because again, like self awareness is a great quality to have but I don't think that at that period, I had it like at a level that I have today. And then when you have someone working with you telling you about and you know observing how you do stuff and and just letting you know about what they observe. Well, it helps a lot. The second thing that was a problem with me was actually I was I was way, way into the imposter syndrome. So low self esteem and wondering like what, who who am I to be paid whatsoever. So I stayed in that state for for few years, a few months, maybe more Maybe even a few years very scared about, about selling anything, right. But then when I got out of it when I had the right coaches helping me, and I realized like what, what what the mistakes were or what work I needed to be done, then now I know that I am able to help my clients or if I see something like that, I'm able to let them know that this is an issue or they should be working on this this way or refer them to someone if there's some type of that problem. But but for sure, when you enter that journey, you got to be open into the fact that nothing is necessarily going to go the way you expect. Because sometimes you plan stuff. And with any type of plan, sometimes, you know, there's one thing that didn't go exactly the way that you that you like that you thought it would. But then again, it's about like resilience is about embracing the challenges, it's about accepting that the self growth that comes out of you know, facing these challenges and being able to overcome them. So So yes, having an open mind is, is is important, too. But as long as my journey, I would say that as soon as I started hiring coaches, then I never stopped. And I think this is what helped me evolve as a person, but also as a as a business owner, recognizing that there were parts where I needed help and hire that help. Right. And I think it's part also of you know, being a coach, I have coaches. And it's and it's okay, like I walk the talk, right, I'm having a coach that's never been coach or, or doesn't have a coach, I don't think it will ever happen for me. Because you need to believe in what you're you're teaching or what you're helping people with. So yeah, I would say that that's, that's mostly my journey.

 

mark egan  26:51

Because, you know, just, we've been talking about coaching, obviously, you have like, say online courses, you have maybe, you know, group training on on a bigger group ones like zoom or something, you get one to one coaching in a few What do you think the differences between Princeton's doing an online course, and hiring a coach,

 

27:14

it's actually the level of support that you get. And it also depends, you know, who gives the course and because sometimes I feel that some marketers are great with, you know, how they market and then when they need to deliver, it's like, you know, the people don't learn much, and they have to, they have to buy the next course, or they have to get into the higher program in order to get anything or get a win or get a return on investment. And so like for that I would say people need to be aware of like, who they invest in, and what other people are saying about the program. And if it could give you some, some results, because of course, the level of investment is not the same. When you buy an online course you could buy a course for like $200. But then when you when you get one on one coaching, like some coaches, they could go as high as $100,000 to work with them like for for one year, for example. So it depends, like, what do you need, what do you need, or what you want, what your goals are, but expect that the more that you invest into someone who has the you know, you you've seen on on the web or with their clients like or on interviews, like the type of results that they're getting, and, and what reputation they have, then, yeah, expect to invest more than if you go with an online course where you have a low level of support. But then if you're self sufficient, and you're very good at that some people like they are definitely able to make things work like with starting with that with that online course. So then they can get some, some some income going into their business and then eventually invest in the higher level. But uh, but yeah, like sometimes people expect to get the same, the same type of assistance or guidance from an online course compared to private coaching, but it's totally different for sure.

 

mark egan  29:19

Now, just to sort of begin wrapping up, because your journey went kind of full circle, am I right in saying you went to Peru? And you kind of brought some of your, you know, coaching expertise back into the sporting world?

 

29:31

Yeah, in fact, in Peru, I was an athlete's mentor for the Canadian delegation and the last Pan Am Games in 2019. And what what brought me to that is the fact that I was on Team Canada myself and I participated at two pennants. And of course, like when they choose someone, well, they go through the athletes that have been through the Olympics or to the Pan Am Games, right? And then you apply and of course they ask you a bunch of question that about like, why they should choose you or what your experience is? And why would they pick you more than someone else? And how did you experiment like your, your journey with Team Canada and all that stuff? And I remember that at the end, when they asked me, Why would they choose me? And I said, well, because I'm not afraid to speak with anyone, any type of stranger, it could be anyone next to me. If I want to have a conversation, I'll start a conversation like I've I've passed the steps of, you know, like being shy or wondering what would people think like, if I have something in mind, I just say it. And I just started a conversation. And I remember like, the delegation was about 500 athletes, and I didn't know a lot of them. Some of them of course, I knew because I followed them. But a lot of them I didn't know and I had to run like, the athletes lounge, so where the athletes would come and relax and share and, and, you know, connect with other athletes and get support, like just stuck to someone who's been there before. And yeah, I met a ton of strangers who are not strangers anymore. Like they're all in my Instagram now. And we connect once in a while, just to just to keep in touch. But But yeah, I would say that the online world this is this is one of the things that I've learned the most being online is to to actually, I would, I wouldn't say master the art of connecting, but I've gotten way better at doing it and not being afraid of, you know, connecting with someone that I don't know. And it could be like someone totally, like, who's a no name, you don't know where they're from? Or like, it's a first time or it could be a celebrity? I wouldn't, I wouldn't be scared.

 

mark egan  31:47

And just final question. You know, you know, what it takes to be a good coach, and maybe on that form, when you had to say everything about yourself? And maybe it's experience, maybe it's knowledge, maybe it's the kind of person you are, what would be the checklist, if somebody's thinking that, you know, could I do a coaching based great coaching business? Am I the right kind of person to have their expertise? What would be the checklist that you would say they would need to take off?

 

32:09

I love your question. Because every, every coach I've worked with, who develop their coaching business, were born coaches. So when you're a coach, you know that your coach, you might not know, but it's inside of you. And then something happens in your life and like, Oh, my God, I'm gifted at this. And I didn't know, right. So for me, a great coach is born a coach, meaning someone who cares about helping others, and someone who is like, who has a high level of empathy, right? Helping others, but also seeing them succeed. It's all about how the coaches fulfilled, not necessarily by the size of their wallet, but by the size of the Pete the amount of people that they they helped, and the amount of people that their lives have changed because of of your help. And so for me, for example, like every week, I receive messages from people could be clients could be people following me on social media saying how grateful they are, because what I said that day, made their day or how I'm changing their lives with, you know, the work that I do with them with coaching, or, you know, how I impact them with what I share in my videos and stuff like that. So, so I feel that, um, you know, being someone who's open to, to help others, but also has a high level of empathy, and cares a lot about, you know, the well being of their clients. I think that these three things, if you have them, you could be the best coach in your market.

 

mark egan  33:44

Okay, so now everybody wants to come and find out more. So where should they go to find out more about?

 

33:49

Yeah, so they could connect with me on my website, February fl.com. But if they're already, if you're already ready to take action, and just go to that next level with me just add slash coaching. So fabyan halford.com, forward slash coaching, and then we can schedule a call and, and make that happen.

 

mark egan  34:10

Brilliant. Well, again, I appreciate your time. Congratulations, on all your success. And maybe you know, when the pandemics over, you're maybe, like maybe I'll go to Canada or you can come across here and we'll cross paths at one of those conferences again, but I appreciate your time and you're always smart. I said the beginning you're always smiling, so keep smiling.

 

34:29

Thank you so much. I thank you for inviting me. It was great to actually catch up with you after all that time.

 

mark egan  34:34

Don't forget to join the knowledge industry group on Facebook. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a good review. And if you want to connect head to http://www.markeganvideo.com

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